Posts by Separation of Powers

18

Were You Tough On Your Fellow Witnesses?

by minimus in

jw
friends

when i was younger, i saw things as a young, inexperienced man.

i thought i knew it all, but time would prove otherwise.

i believed that as long as you accepted "mother's" counsel, then everyone should just follow jehovah's organization's guidance.. i realized some witnesses actually loved that thought, that it's either black or white.

Separation of Powers

Minimus

Thank you for sharing, Minimus.

I was the typical young elder, very pragmatic and by-the-book. CO's loved me. If they were head-hunting, they knew just who would be up for a fight. When it came to what the organization said, it was more gospel than THE gospel. I was brash at times. Self-assured about my knowledge of the process (because that's really all the organization is about in my opinion) and the answer man when it came to where it was written, in what KM or letter. A real company man.

As I matured, I began to recognize the difference between being an overseer and being a shepherd. Throughout the entire process however, I was never tough on the young people, at least none that I recall. Even in judicial cases, I would allow the young person to make the decision if he or she felt that they were repentant and "wanted" to remain in the organization. I am proud of the fact that I helped out a lot of people. Some sick, some dying, some old, some depressed and downtrodden. I have good memories of helping people through hard times. I am sure, however, there are some whose memories of me are not as pleasant.

I have given up that part of my life and it's interesting, I do not miss any aspect of it in the slightest. I see through the veil of mock humility and the power base. I have prayed for forgiveness where, in my enthusiam, I stepped on toes or hurt people's feelings. I realize, however, that I was simply playing a part in an already convoluted and very imperfect process, a man made process.

SOP

18

Why are they so quick to shun?

by Crazyguy in

cedars story made me wonder why are parents and loved ones so quick to shun??

i mean it can be shown biblically that only people that do not believe in jesus as the messiah are apostates.

thessalonians tells us to keep admonishing one as a 'brother' and jesus christ himself said to love your enemies.

Separation of Powers

It is part of the indoctrination. It is my belief that JWs are taught to NOT create meaningful relationships with anyone, particularly their families. In that way, it is easier to cut the ties when the time comes and eventually in some way or another it comes. It all starts with the "we are privileged" mentality. The "special" insight into spiritual things that moves JW's to criticize or look down on every other religion as foolish or evil. With that mindset, than it moves to "I am more special than you." And if "I am more special than you" then "you" don't really matter now do you?

Father to DF'd daughter: How can you be so selfish?

daughter: why do you listen to what the organization tells you?

Father to DF'd daughter: because I want to live forever.

daughter: Then who's being selfish?

SOP

71

Trying to overcome my homophobia.

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

i had a music album by a gay guy before i was a jw and had no problem listening to it.

it's good music.

some of the lyrics are what you might call 'gay', that is there's some talk about boyfriends, gay bars, and queens and the intolerance the artist encountered as a gay man.

Separation of Powers

@ JuliaOrwell

First, get rid of the guilt....It doesn't help you or the issue that you are contending with.

Second, reach out to someone who can help you "mend" the mindset.

Years ago, I contended with the realization that my JW background had made be an arse of the highest degree, judgmental, reactionary, prejudiced. Most of these were passive, but still prevalent in my mindset. I have a saying written on a piece of paper on my post-it board.

"Indoctrinated to judge everyone, we sometimes become our own jury."

Good luck, the first step is recognition.

SOP

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

Separation of Powers

SoP, you make a few good points, although I don't see quite how the account of the creation in Genesis can be ascribed to support the birth of the Israelite nation, as this really begins with Abraham, who appears to show up from nowhere in the account of Genesis, completely dissociated from the previous accounts.

Eden

One must realize that the story of Adam and Eve, in fact, all the pre-Abrahamic mythology is Jewish in nature. It is an explanation of the singular importance of the Jew/Israelite in an existing world. Per the creation narrative, only the progenitors of the nation, i.e. Adam and Eve, were blessed to be in the garden, directly created by the Almighty with a singular relationship. His presence is felt by them in the Garden. They are special.

The story moves from there. The legend builds. A legend or myth structure shared over the centuries, from Adam to Abraham then to Moses, its supposed scribe. To say that the story is "completely disassociated from the previous accounts" is to reject the lineage from Adam to Abraham that is contained in the Torah itself. It is a package deal. All related. Adam to Abraham to Moses to NATION.

Take as an example the story of Pocahontas and Captain John Smith. The story (legend) of the first settlers (colonists). The story, although it is displaced from the Founding Fathers legend, is still repeated in history books as part of American History. It serves to distinguish the "american" as a trail blazer, confronting hardship, worthy of help from the indigenous. It also serves to promote the notion that the early settler was justified in displacing the indigenous. After all, Pocahontas marries John Rolfe and converts to christianity, if it was good enough for her (legend) then history would expect that her people would follow suit. It is all part of the folklore and legend ritual necessary in the foundation of a nation.

Hope that answers your question.

SOP

28

Is everyone required to be enrolled in the theocratic ministry school?

by hoser in

jw
friends

can a publisher "drop out" and still be in good standing?.

Separation of Powers

No..unless you have physical or mental issues that can be verified by a team of medical professionals. The group of medical professionals must provide documentation that states unequivocally that you cannot participate in the TMS. They must also state if you are restricted from serving as the householder or if that would be permissible. If you simply choose to "opt out" then others will notice and you might be construed as having been dealt with judicially and for that reason not allowed to participate even if you wanted to when you obviously did not want to in the first place. LOL

SOP

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

Separation of Powers

OK, good points all. Let's see if I can address them quickly.

If the Garden of Eden myth is related to nation building, then there must be a key, something that helps us to unlock the fact that it is simply a myth with a baseline application. That key is found in the expression of Cain...yes, Cain, when he is confronted with the discipline of the Almighty. He states, "I will be a restless wanderer on the earth and whoever finds me will kill me." If, as the myth implies, Adam and Eve and their immediate offspring are the ONLY ones on earth, then why would Cain worry about being killed? Surely, everyone on earth, if confined to just Adam and Eve and their family knew what Cain had done. Their offspring would know what Cain had done. Why then would God put a mark on him so that "no one who found him would kill him?" The answer is simple, they were NOT the only people living on the earth. Proof of that is the expression that Cain went out "to the LAND of Nod, to the east of Eden." That expression is noteworthy, as the expression implies habitaction, geographic boundaries.

So...that is the key, the rest is relatively easy.

Tree of Knowledge, reason why nation NOT in blessed condition and have to put up with all the gentiles.

Tree of Life, the objective, the blessing that if they conform to God's commands, i.e the laws of the nation, then they will again be in a blessed state.

Garden of Eden, the objective, the reward for conformance to the nation

Sin because of Eve, the manner in which the patriarchal, male dominated society founded itself.

It is all pretty easily understood from that point on......

Just some thoughts,

SOP

20

How I miss the 'Truth' of my youth....

by gingerbread in

jw
friends

my family moved from the city to the country.. part of the reason for the relocation was to move 'to where the need was greater'.

i loved our new home - i was free to roam the woods and fields, enjoy the wildlife, work in our garden and feed the chickens.

i had new friends in our new congregation.

Separation of Powers

Ginger,

I concur...things are simply not the same. I knew things were different when "gatherings" were discouraged starting in the '80's. Then, more and more comments were made related to how "some" in the congregation "may not be good association" and "just because someone is here at the hall, doesn't mean they are good association" started a maelstrom of suspicion that could never be rectified. I saw it happening before my eyes...the marginalization of dozens of young people who, although on the fringe, still felt like they were part of the congregation. Now, they simply check out.

SOP

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

Separation of Powers

EdenOne,

Interesting analysis of the text. I have to say that the story of the Garden of Eden is probably one of the most interpreted stories in the Bible. You made mention of the idea that God would have ultimately allowed Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, yet you made no mention (that I can recall) of the Tree of Life. The fact that two distinct trees are mentioned in the myth is important. The fact that one is accessible and the other outside the limits or boundaries of man is also very important. The tree of knowledge or "wisdom" as you mention, is simply a means to an end, an explanation, a cause....the effect, sin. There is, in my opinion, no other purpose for the tree.

I have commented several times before that the story of the Garden of Eden, in fact the entire pre-Mosaic portion of Genesis, simply serves the purpose of distinguishing the Jew or Israelite from other peoples. It is akin to the legends built around any nation-state. The U.S. history books are replete with the notion of legends. The Paul Revere story, the George Washington and cherry tree story, the Benedict Arnold story. They all serve a purpose in identifying what became the nation. If you read the book of Genesis from that perspective, you will find less mysticism and more political propaganda.

SOP

55

Letting go of Highly Qualified Men

by James Jackson in

jw
friends

i have been posting for a few months now and have read the life stories of tech49, confusedandalone, winston smith and other brothers who have held prominent positions in the organization who were dismissed not for any gross sins, but mainly for not keeping their child toeing the line.

they have been "cast aside", nit picked to death, and made to feel unworthy for their years of dedicated service.

even in my case, having my best friends treat me like the plague to jockey for position of recogntion.. is this what the organization is resorting to now?

Separation of Powers

I have found that most "highly qualified men" can remain in their positions as long as they have the support of the elder body they serve with. I recall a CO that traveled through a congregation I was in and he apparently decided that one of the elders simply did not qualify because his oldest kid, an adult, had rejected the "truth." I don't believe he knew the circumstances. It appeared that he simply wanted him out. He apparently wrote his letter along with his report and the elder body reportedly wrote one to rebut his position. He remained an elder.

I would imagine that if there was a finger pointer among the group, the elder would have been deleted. But, we all saw the wisdom of the "cast the first stone" portion of the Bible.

SOP

26

Should I ''respect'' Bible and Koran believers?

by ThomasCovenant in

believers in the koran/islam, that's all of them, not just so called extremists, believe that i, as an unbeliever, will be the fuel for the fires of hell.

that's nice.. they, along with all bible believers, worship a god who is, according to his written publications, a right bastard.

i despise their god/s.. i find that i do not respect their beliefs.. i cannot help but think that when all the philosophical talking of this, that and the other is done, they're just idiots.. i, on my down days, find that i do not respect them as human beings.

Separation of Powers

It depends on what your definition of "respect" is. If you mean respect in the sense of "tolerate" than yes, we should all be tolerant. If you mean respect in the classic sense, aka admiration, than you might be harder pressed. I have always "admired" people with other beliefs, particularly if they were "true believers" with regard to what their belief system required. In this day and age, it is difficult for anyone to adhere to any set of standards. So, I guess I "respect" those type of believers. Otherwise, I just tolerate them.

SOP